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Post by Warlock on Jan 23, 2012 17:46:18 GMT -5
I don't believe you're unwelcome in this discussion and you could still contribute. Just talk about the story and characters with us~ Okay... Let's start with something simple (and childish). Pairings~~  Now I probably prefer Tifa/Cloud. I mean, they were the real pairing in this game. People who pair Cloud with Aeris are silly. Aeris just saw bits of Zack in him. I mean, they could of gotten together and had a good enough relationship, but it's far from the perfect love story that the shippers like to imagine. Cloud/Yuffie is just silliness because Yuffie isn't really a serious character and there isn't anything between them. Only tangentially related, but I was trying to remember the other day, and it's been so long since I played the game that I've forgotten... Was the whole Zack and Aeris connection actually from the original game, or was that something that was retconned in as part of Crisis Core and Advent Children? - HC |
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Post by Vireo Gilvus on Jan 23, 2012 19:10:50 GMT -5
As far as I know, a lot of Aeris and Tifa's feelings for Cloud stemmed from them misremembering their past, as shown (for example) with the photograph of the group on Mt. Nibel by the reactor. Whatever. That story had a bunch of holes, but then again, story's not the reason why I like FF7 so much. Also, technically, Yuffie's not even an "official" story character of FF7. The player must go to great lengths to recruit her ( Guide Dang It in action), and she doesn't appear during the ending (or any other FMVs) if I remember correctly. So if people want to pair her with Cloud, they can if they want to, but RPG fanfiction in general always struck me as kinda dumb. |
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Post by Kalisiin Kumaki on Jan 23, 2012 19:28:35 GMT -5
hummm...so IS the story any good? Because, for me, if the story isn't good, then I'm not even interested. It sounds to me as if the story isn't very good if, as you say, there are lots of holes in it.
One of the reasons I so loved DQ5 was that the storyline was very very tight...and very emotionally engaging.
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Post by Vireo Gilvus on Jan 23, 2012 20:17:24 GMT -5
Well, it's pretty good, but it takes a back seat to the action, presentation, and of course gameplay.
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Post by Kalisiin Kumaki on Jan 24, 2012 8:28:11 GMT -5
Well, it's pretty good, but it takes a back seat to the action, presentation, and of course gameplay. So again...like I said...with this game the eye candy trumps the brain candy. Which is a basic reason I've given for not really being interested in trying this game. Not that this is a bad thing...some people (many) seem to like and prefer the eye candy...but not me. |
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Post by Warlock on Jan 24, 2012 19:24:08 GMT -5
I'm pretty sure they explained this later on on the game, actually- Cloud arrived at Nibelheim with Sephiroth and Zack as one of the blue-suited Shinra troopers. He did save Tifa and also managed to push Sephiroth into the drink, but was badly injured doing to. Cloud's recounting of events in the early game was inaccurate as a result of the experimentation Hojo did on him- it's established elsewhere in the game that Jenova's cells and Mako can have strange effects on personality and memories, and Hojo's experiments involved exposing Cloud and Zack to both. In Cloud's case, it caused him to conflate his own history with Zack's.
Recall also that Tifa and Cloud were childhood friends before that, as well- they've had a long history.
As for Aeris and Cloud, as I recall, they met and were put through a bunch of dangerous situations together and along the line she decided that she kinda liked him. It was eventually established that Aeris had previously been romantically involved with Zack. One of the reasons she was attracted to Could was that he reminded her of Zack, since Could adopted Zack's look and mannerisms when he arrived in Midgar.
I don't feel that there are any major holes in either plot thread, at least as far as the events in Final Fantasy 7 are concerned.
Why did Bishop Ladja petrify the hero at the end of G2 instead of just killing him like Papas/Pankraz?
Emotional resonance is in the eye of the beholder. Not everyone is going to react the same way to the same games; I thought Dragon Warrior 5's plot was okay, but not really anything special.
- HC
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Post by Warlock on Jan 24, 2012 19:41:53 GMT -5
So again...like I said...with this game the eye candy trumps the brain candy. Which is a basic reason I've given for not really being interested in trying this game. Not that this is a bad thing...some people (many) seem to like and prefer the eye candy...but not me. No offense, but when you make judgements like that because one person said one thing that wasn't 100% positive about one aspect the game, it makes me think you're just looking for excuses to hate it. - HC |
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Post by Kalisiin Kumaki on Jan 24, 2012 19:43:27 GMT -5
So again...like I said...with this game the eye candy trumps the brain candy. Which is a basic reason I've given for not really being interested in trying this game. Not that this is a bad thing...some people (many) seem to like and prefer the eye candy...but not me. No offense, but when you make judgements like that because one person said one thing that wasn't 100% positive about one aspect the game, it makes me think you're just looking for excuses to hate it. - HC not the first place I have heard that, though. |
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Post by Vireo Gilvus on Jan 24, 2012 23:36:57 GMT -5
I'm pretty sure they explained this later on on the game, actually- Cloud arrived at Nibelheim with Sephiroth and Zack as one of the blue-suited Shinra troopers. He did save Tifa and also managed to push Sephiroth into the drink, but was badly injured doing to. Cloud's recounting of events in the early game was inaccurate as a result of the experimentation Hojo did on him- it's established elsewhere in the game that Jenova's cells and Mako can have strange effects on personality and memories, and Hojo's experiments involved exposing Cloud and Zack to both. In Cloud's case, it caused him to conflate his own history with Zack's. Recall also that Tifa and Cloud were childhood friends before that, as well- they've had a long history. As for Aeris and Cloud, as I recall, they met and were put through a bunch of dangerous situations together and along the line she decided that she kinda liked him. It was eventually established that Aeris had previously been romantically involved with Zack. One of the reasons she was attracted to Could was that he reminded her of Zack, since Could adopted Zack's look and mannerisms when he arrived in Midgar. I don't feel that there are any major holes in either plot thread, at least as far as the events in Final Fantasy 7 are concerned. OK, it's been years since I last played FF7, so I forgot all of this. Makes a lot more sense now. |
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Post by shokushuko on Jan 25, 2012 2:33:52 GMT -5
I linked you the the wikipedia article where is sums up the plot before. You didn't choose to read it. It's easily better than the plot of a lot of Dragon Quest games, but that's up to personal taste. This is atleast something other than traditional Hero of Light against Darkness fantasy plots that pretty much make up all Dragon Quest games. Usually FF6 and onwards isn't about being some chosen hero, it's just about taking on the major threats of the world, usually getting dragged into it by circumstance.
And yeah. Aeris just liked Cloud because he reminded her of Zack (because Cloud had pretty much stolen his persona). And just shallow interest with him otherwise. It could of turned into something, but it's not a love story sort of situation.
Tifa was a girl-next-door style childhood friend. And he was one of the soldiers that accompanied Sephiroth and Zack, so he was actually there to help Tifa at Nibelheim. Tifa actually did love Cloud, in a very normal kind of way. It wasn't Zack or a false memory that she loved him for. It was a childhood crush. And Tifa was there for Cloud when he was in a total identity crisis. I mean, sure, Aeris was dead, but Aeris wouldn't of really been able to do much for him.
And yes. Yuffie was a humorous bonus character that only mattered in her home village. She could of easily been a non-recruitable NPC and have given the same participation to the plot.
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Post by Kalisiin Kumaki on Jan 25, 2012 9:10:41 GMT -5
So again...like I said...with this game the eye candy trumps the brain candy. Which is a basic reason I've given for not really being interested in trying this game. Not that this is a bad thing...some people (many) seem to like and prefer the eye candy...but not me. No offense, but when you make judgements like that because one person said one thing that wasn't 100% positive about one aspect the game, it makes me think you're just looking for excuses to hate it. - HC Don't really need an excuse to hate it...I have plenty of reasons: One, ATB. Two, it is FF. Three, it is overhyped. Four, I have heard from others that the plot was fairly weak. I'm just simply not going to change my mind on FF or ATB. Not gonna happen. If you guys like it...great. We don't all have to agree or like the same things. |
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Post by Warlock on Jan 25, 2012 10:50:09 GMT -5
I'm just simply not going to change my mind on FF or ATB. Not gonna happen. If you guys like it...great. We don't all have to agree or like the same things. Of course we don't- but if you're planning on popping into these threads every time anyone says anything critical about the games with some sort of "see they're terrible games!!" victory dance, then we're going to end up having conversations similar to this one a lot. - HC |
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Post by Kalisiin Kumaki on Jan 25, 2012 11:38:13 GMT -5
I'm just simply not going to change my mind on FF or ATB. Not gonna happen. If you guys like it...great. We don't all have to agree or like the same things. Of course we don't- but if you're planning on popping into these threads every time anyone says anything critical about the games with some sort of "see they're terrible games!!" victory dance, then we're going to end up having conversations similar to this one a lot. - HC Well, I did not mean for it to come across as a "victory dance" just pointed out a little vindication for my point of view. Sorry if it came across in a different way than I intended. Like I said we all don't have to agree, or even like the same games. But we should not be getting OFFENDED if someone's opinion does not happen to match our own. |
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Post by Warlock on Jan 25, 2012 18:28:05 GMT -5
I'm not offended by your opinion, even of I think it's irrational. I'm annoyed that you're turning a sidebar conversation about a minor plot point into an excuse to bitch about how much you hate the game.
- HC
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Post by Kalisiin Kumaki on Jan 25, 2012 19:34:35 GMT -5
I'm not offended by your opinion, even of I think it's irrational. I'm annoyed that you're turning a sidebar conversation about a minor plot point into an excuse to bitch about how much you hate the game. - HC Sorry I annoyed you. Just wanted to pint out a little vindication for my point of view. Peace? |
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