ATB Battle System

[Kalisiin Kumaki]

Here, people may respectfully discuss the merits/drawbacks of the ATB battle system for RPGs.

All opinions are welcome and valid, I ask that no member directly challenge any other poster's opinion.


As for me, my one and only experience with ATB was a bad experience, and it soured me on the entire battle system, and, because of that experience, I'm not inclined to try other games with this battle system, even if improvements may have been made to the battle system in order to address some of my problems with it.

My experience with this battle system was with FF4 - when this battle system was in it's infancy. I felt the battle system was unfair on a couple of levels.

Firstly...while the computer kept whaling on you...your characters had to wait for an audible "blip" before they were allowed to enter another attack command. This made it appear that there were two sets of rules...one for you...and one for the computer - and the computer had the clear advantage, since IT did not have to wait for a "blip."

It is my understanding that "status bars" have been added now, which shows how long your characters have before they may attack again. I do not know if it also shows you how long enemies must wait.

Secondly, the reaction time of the computer is instantaneous, whereas this is not true for a human player, who has to scroll thru a list to determine what type of attack to make against which monster. this tended to allow several attacks for the computer while you, the player, were setting up your attack...or forced you to wildly enter SOMETHING...just so you could attack - so it eliminated the ability to think and plan out your attacks, as you could, for example, in the original FF game.

It is my understanding that this issue has been addressed by allowing player to select "Active" or "Wait" mode...whereby, if in "Wait" mode, opening up a menu to select attacks stopped the computer from continuing to attack you while you were entering in your attack.

It is also my understanding that the timing can be changed by various spells in later games (but not FF4) where you can speed your own attacks (cause your status bar to come down faster, allowing you to attack more frequently) or slow the computer's attacks (causing them to have to wait longer before delivering another attack.)

Unrelated to ATB itself, my other major problem with the ATB battle system was the ability of monsters to cast "Count" on your party (the spell apparently was later re-named "Doom.") This IS, however, related to the issue of not being able to attack quickly...and having to wait for attacks...since you have a limited time to destroy the enemies or be automatically and instantly killed.

With the reaction-time issue I mentioned above...and the necessity to wait for your "blip" the Count/Doom spell was the thing that REALLY turned me off on ATB.

Please note that these are merely my opinions, and my subjective view of the ATB battle system...a system which I do not like, because of my experience with it. Granted, my experience is limited to one game in which this battle system was in its infancy...but it is my experience, and thus, I, personally see no advantages/merits to this battle system. I see only drawbacks.

However, this is my opinion. All opinions on this battle system are welcome, whether or not they are in agreement with my own, but I do ask that replies to this topic remain respectful, and that posters respect other members by not directly attacking, challenging, or asking them to justify their opinions.

[shokushuko]

Actually... Even Final Fantasy II (SNES) had a Haste spell. It was called Fast...

The fact is, lots of people liked the ATB system, or at least had no problem with it, and it was only the original Final Fantasy 4 that had a terrible version of it. I mean, maybe some glitches in other games, but not enough for it to be detrimental. I'm actually a big fan of Time Magic, and debuffs/status effects in general. Being able to out turn an enemy is fun. Also, when the Speed stat is involved, and you have a way to train your speed stat, you're pretty much leveling your characters to naturally get more turns than normal. In most games, the unfairness is you over the enemies. Besides, generally in games, Doom is based off your turns so it doesn't matter how long you have to wait for your turn. There is usually someway to prevent or cure the spell too.

[Kalisiin Kumaki]

Well, in FF4...Doom/Count...was based off seconds. You had ten seconds to defeat your enemies or DIE.

That was the major aspect that turned me off the ATB battle system.

And, in FF4, I do not recall there being any way to remove the spell other than killing the enemies. I may be mistaken here, but I do not recall the ability to remove the Count spell in FF4 once it was cast on you. Now, the one saving grace was that Count did not ALWAYS work when an enemy cast it. However, if your whole party got nailed, you lost all your progress from your last Savepoint.

On another front, I already have the ability, with my handheld consoles...to emulate over 800 different games that I already like...so trying new games is not a high priority for me. a game has to, in some way, REALLY capture my attention....in order to make me want to try it.

The most recent example of this was The Dark Spire, and that was about three years ago. Strider wrote such an excellent and interesting review on that game...on a Board we were both previously on, prior to its closing...that it made me actually want to try it.

Strider, who has known me for years....could tell you that it is a very rare thing...to make me interested enough in an unknown game...to try it. the exceptions to this being new homebrew games, and, particularly, games made using RPGMaker...most of which are fangames of games that I already like...and I am always interested in trying new RPGMaker games...when they are fangames of already-loved games.

I have not searched, but I can probably safely assume there have been many fangames based on the various FF games. What I have found are several based on DW/DQ...and a few based on another much-loved series (at least for me) and that is Phantasy Star.

At any rate, I am getting slightly off the topic here, so I redirect this back to discussing the merits/drawbacks of the ATB battle system. I just felt that an explanation of my dislike of the ATB system in general...and my lack of interest in trying new games...was warranted here.

I have started a separate subject in the Emulation Board, regarding all the various games I have the ability to emulate on my DS, Dingoo, and GBA.

[shokushuko]

Yes. The orginal Final Fantasy 4 didn't have a way to remove Count. Generally other games do though. But yeah, I think running was the best method to counter them.

What does "REALLY capturing your interest" even mean, though? You can essentially play anthing and until you actually try something you don't know how much you like something. Obviously you make choices based on previous interests, but that doesn't guarantee anything either. Some games suck but have better sequels and some games are great and have terrible sequels. Besides, it sounds like you DO try and play new games. You're just telling us you choose to play other games instead, usually based on association to other games you like and avoid games associated with games you hated.

This topic really is quite off topic though, because the fact that you neglect to play ATB games doesn't really add to the discussion of the ATB system. It would only be relevant if the topic was actually about whether you should play ATB games or not. There's no reason to justify why you don't try more games with ATB unless that's the topic you want the discussion to be about.

[Kalisiin Kumaki]

Jan 6, 2012 1:22:43 GMT -5 @shokushuko said:

Yes. The orginal Final Fantasy 4 didn't have a way to remove Count. Generally other games do though. But yeah, I think running was the best method to counter them.

What does "REALLY capturing your interest" even mean, though? You can essentially play anthing and until you actually try something you don't know how much you like something. Obviously you make choices based on previous interests, but that doesn't guarantee anything either. Some games suck but have better sequels and some games are great and have terrible sequels. Besides, it sounds like you DO try and play new games. You're just telling us you choose to play other games instead, usually based on association to other games you like and avoid games associated with games you hated.

This topic really is quite off topic though, because the fact that you neglect to play ATB games doesn't really add to the discussion of the ATB system. It would only be relevant if the topic was actually about whether you should play ATB games or not. There's no reason to justify why you don't try more games with ATB unless that's the topic you want the discussion to be about.

I agree. I only felt it was topical to mention that I had a bad experience with ATB...and the nature of that - and to also mention that trying new games isn't a huge priority for me.

Please continue discussion of the ATB battle system.