Ouya

[Warlock]

An IRL friend was a backer to the Kickstarter-darling Oyua console, one of the several "nonportable Android console" projects going around. I had an opportunity to play around with it a bit, and I've got some disorganized thoughts on the topic.

It's an interesting experiment and it definitely has potential, perhaps as a 'midway platform' for 'midrange' indie devs to aim for if they can't afford a bigname console devkit. I worry that eventually their store is going to have some of the issues you see on places like iTunes or Netflix, where "browsing" is difficult unless you know exactly what you're looking for and if you're a new developer you're basically sunk if you can't get on the top-ten lists quickly. The fact that every game is try-before-you-buy (combined with the fact that most, at present, are ports of phone games which aren't designed for long-term play) may also cause issues in that it'll be easy for players to download a bazillion games and play each of them for 10 minutes without ever actually buying any of them.

On the plus side- it's a nice system, with a real controller that can be attached to a real screen, and if you want to try a game you just hit the 'menu' button and pull it up; that kind of convenience is hard to argue with. It gives Android devs a single target to aim for during development* and creates an environment that Android games larger than commute-side can exist. I'll certainly consider picking one up when they're more widely available.

One of the stealth marketing gimmicks is that there are a lot of emulators supported on the box; if any of these are on the official store, I kind of worry about what's going to happen when the inevitable legal challenges to it come up. Even if they're technically not distributing ROMs, I'm not sure that excuse is going to stand up to an army of highly-paid lawyers from Nintendo and Sony.

- HC


*- one of the traditional complaints about Android development is that there are so many different handsets and Android devices; you can't write once and then test on one fairly constrained set of devices as with Apple. I've heard horror stories of devs who found that their games wouldn't run on entire classes of devices- who put stuff in testing only to find that Nokia phones refused to run it.

[Kalisiin Kumaki]

Doesn't anyone use their phones to make CALLS any more? Sheesh.
Well, emulators have been around for a long. long time now, and I have never heard of any sort of laegal challenges.
After all, just because they CAN emulate systems, one still needs the ROM files, and THAT is where I believe all the legal attention is going to go.
Already, there are romsites out there - and I won't name any - but those in the know...know where to find them. At any rate, on a lot of those sites, certain ROMS are not available because of various legal actions...usually nothing more than simple C&D orders.

The simple fact is, it's really a losing battle, anyway. Those who are determined to pirate...will find a way to pirate, and nothing is going to stop them. The companies put up a barrier, the pirates find a way around...the companies put up another barrier, and on it goes.

It's the same way with computer hackers, really...and they are another pain in the ass, I might add...but why else do you think you always need "security updates"? Same reason. Hackers find a way in...the software comapnies put up a barrier (patch) the hackers find another way in...and so it goes. Not that I am particularly skilled in this area - I was good in my day with BASIC and PASCAL, mind...but the languages and technology have left me behind...but, it was always easier to reverse-engineer something, and find a new hole...than it was to cover all the holes. That much, apparently, has not changed.

I'm not advocating piracy or hacking, incidentally, I'm just pragmatic enough to realize you can't actually stop it. It's like trying to keep your car from being broken into...or your house from being broken into. You can't really prevent it. all you can really do is make yourself an undesirable target...or a difficult target.

It's like the War On Drugs. Stupid. Those who want them...will always find a way to obtain them. One can only hope that enough people like me believe in doing things the right way, the honest way...and that offests loss from pirates.

If these guys were REALLY smart...they'd go the way of iTunes and so forth, and make the damned ROMs available to you...to download for a fee. My own opinion is that they'd be far smarter doing that, and making a few bucks along the way...instead of fighting the never-ending battle with pirates and hackers.

[Warlock]

Ouya isn't a phone; it's a console that runs the same operating system as a phone. This was mentioned in the first sentence of my post. Since it runs the same OS as a phone, quite a few of the 180something launch titles are clearly ports of old phone games.

The issue with Emulation is that (A) one of the 'stealth selling points' (as in, the Ouya folks haven't explicitly stated this but have kind of treated it with a wink and a grin) is that there are emulators for a battalion of old systems available and (B) Ouya stuff is loaded from a central store, like iTunes (it can also be loaded via USB stick).

I'm not sure if the emulators and the like are located on the central store. My point is that if they are, it makes the Ouya folks an attractive target for litigious companies looking for a financially weak company they can beat up to set a legal precedent or make an example of. If they really wanted, they could probably go after Ouya anyway- the Ouya folks have mentioned the existence of emulators once or twice in tweets, and even if Oyua is legally in the right, the ESA companies probably have enough money to keep the Ouya folks in court until they go bankrupt.

iTunes-like services for 'classic' games exist- it's called the Virtual Console on the Nintendo side and Playstation Network on Sony's side. Releases on the VC have been kind of anemic, but last time I looked at the list of games available on PSN, I was quite impressed by it.

- HC

[Kalisiin Kumaki]

Warlock, you could have something there.
It's a pain in the ass, though, that the big guys can so abuse the legal system as to crush anyone from above before they even get their head out of the water.

Ever see the movie "Tucker?" Same thing happened to him.

Still, though, I say the smart money actually goes after the ROMS, because...without the ROMS, an emulator is no damn good. and, as I say...there could be legal argument that just because a program CAN emulate gaming consoles...since they do not provide any actual ROMS (copyrighted material) they have no actual responsibility for what anyone actually does with the emulator.

I'm no lawyer, but I'd say that is certainly a possible legal argument...and it may be why emulators have gone so long without any legal challenges...and yet some ROMS, as I mentioned...are not offered by certain sites because of legal actions.

For the most part, a simple C&D order will keep almost anyone from offering them on their site. Nobody wants to actually get sued.

Also, another possible argument is, since the Ouya runs a platform that accepts other programs - they do not have to be specific to Ouya...same deal. The emulators exist on other platforms that Ouya can handle. So how is Ouya responsible just because Ouya CAN run an emulator program which was designed for a different system... which CAN emulate certain console systems?

See, you just need a smart lawyer, and a judge who isn't bought and paid for. Good luck finding a judge like that in America, though.

I still say the big companies should get smart about it, though.
Currently, they sell the DS at a big loss, because they figure they are going to make back their money and then some, selling you the games.
Why not offer the ROMS for download, for a fee...and let folks have the emulators for free...make money on the download of ROMS, and then go after the purveyors of free ROMS?

I'm just sayin'...that is what they'd do if they were really smart, because I am pragmatic enough to know that those who want them, will obtain them. so why not make some money on the deal...instead of blowing money on programming tricks, and lawyers to try to prevent what can't really be prevented?

As I said...the programming and technology have moved beyond me...but even in the heyday of BASIC and PASCAL (back when viruses were called "rogue programs" and back in the day when hacking was done largely by trial and error) - even back then...it was easier to reverse-engineer something and find a security hole...than it is to actually cover all the holes.

[Warlock]

So there are, in fact, emulators in the official store. This isn't going to end well.

I think it's quite likely that they'll be pulled down by means of C&D at some point.

That being said, there are certainly other interesting things about the console and I hope things pan out well for them.

- HC

[Kalisiin Kumaki]

I still say that emulators seem to have been largely ignored by the gaming companies...and the ROMs have been targeted.

I dunno. Me, I have just about all the gaming I want, so it doesn't matter to me too much what happens out of this.

Quite frankly, the stuff I like is all the old stuff, anyway, as if the title of this Board didn't give that away.

[Warlock]

Well... There's a difference for a company between "Emulators exist, if you know what they are and how to find them and use Google" and "Emulators are available right in the store for a competing console". I have a feeling that they'll want to put an end to the latter if possible.

I confess that I'm less worried about emulators that the Ouya folks being on the receiving end of legal action which will force them out of business, because they seem like they're a cool company making an interesting product.

- HC

[Kalisiin Kumaki]

I see your point. Still, at most, I see them maybe getting a C&D and then yanking the emulators from the OFFICIAL SITE...and, of course, the emulators will be able to be obtained other places and other ways.

I honestly can't see the gaming companies coming, guns blazing, to take out a small company who is producing a very niche item. Generally, a C&D does the trick. Of course, I'm no lawyer, but, this seems to be the common way things get done these days, in my experience.