Revisiting An Old Favorite

[Kalisiin Kumaki]

I have not been playing DQ9 for the past couple weeks...I kinda needed a break from it.

I have decided, for a while, to re-visit an old favorite in PS2.

Currently, I'm grinding out by Uzo Island - just trying to get all my characters up to about Level 15...which is the minimum I want everyone to be when we are ready to face the machines.

Because of all this grinding, I'm probably pretty much set for money for the whole game. At least, in this game, though...there is this way of getting most of your grinding done early rather than later.

Soon I'll have everyone up to where I want and then, of course, Nei will die. I've always hated that Nei has to die, though. Her attack isn't bad, even though her defense sucks.

I've always wondered, though...if there was a way to avoid Nei's death, and I've never found one. But, on the Dezo Planet...one of the Armor Shops sells "Sandals" and Nei is the only person who can equip them.

The thing is...you can't get to Dezo until after Nei's apparently unavoidable death, so what were they thinking...or is there something I haven't discovered...

[Warlock]

I used to be a big Phantasy Star fan back in the early days of emulation- it was one of hte games I missed out on by not having a Genesis, but I'd always wanted to go back and play it. I was even pretty active in the Phantasy Star community for a time.

Phantasy Star 2 was okay- I did like the sci-fi/80s anime setting. The game took a lot of will though; it got awfully grind-heavy in the later portions of the game, and there are only so many Blasters I can stomach killing. PS2's limited number of tilesets also got to be a headache after a while- I realize it was an early Genesis game, but I think I would have happily given up animated enemies to get a few more dungeon tilesets and less of those goddamn pipes. I thought that Phantasy Star 4 was the best of the series by a significant margin- better plot, gameplay, and presentation all around (of course, about four more years of programming experience did go into it).... In retrospect, I also wonder why nobody else did the "manga cutscenes" like PS4 did; it seems like a very good way to work around the restrictions to tiny character sprites.

Back to the topic at hand: as I recall, the word was that the Sandals were a bug in the game or an intentional red herring- there isn't a way to permanently bring Nei back after her death unless you cheat. You can revive her with items during the fight against Neifirst, but she's gone forever after that- even if she bests Neifirst when fighting alone.

Interestingly, the real reason that Nei suddenly couldn't be revived through the cloning place after her battle with Neifirst was lost in translation: Nei has both human and monster DNA, and killing Neifirst destroys the 'monster' half.

- HC

[Kalisiin Kumaki]

Oct 17, 2012 19:11:56 GMT -5 Warlock said:

I used to be a big Phantasy Star fan back in the early days of emulation- it was one of hte games I missed out on by not having a Genesis, but I'd always wanted to go back and play it. I was even pretty active in the Phantasy Star community for a time.

Phantasy Star 2 was okay- I did like the sci-fi/80s anime setting. The game took a lot of will though; it got awfully grind-heavy in the later portions of the game, and there are only so many Blasters I can stomach killing. PS2's limited number of tilesets also got to be a headache after a while- I realize it was an early Genesis game, but I think I would have happily given up animated enemies to get a few more dungeon tilesets and less of those goddamn pipes. I thought that Phantasy Star 4 was the best of the series by a significant margin- better plot, gameplay, and presentation all around (of course, about four more years of programming experience did go into it).... In retrospect, I also wonder why nobody else did the "manga cutscenes" like PS4 did; it seems like a very good way to work around the restrictions to tiny character sprites.

Back to the topic at hand: as I recall, the word was that the Sandals were a bug in the game or an intentional red herring- there isn't a way to permanently bring Nei back after her death unless you cheat. You can revive her with items during the fight against Neifirst, but she's gone forever after that- even if she bests Neifirst when fighting alone.

Interestingly, the real reason that Nei suddenly couldn't be revived through the cloning place after her battle with Neifirst was lost in translation: Nei has both human and monster DNA, and killing Neifirst destroys the 'monster' half.

- HC

I knew that about Nei, by the way.
PS2 is my fave of the series, with PS4 being a close second.

PS3 sorta sucked, to be honest.

PS1, the original...is far better than any 8-bit game deserves to be, and I've often wished they had incorporated the 3-D aspects of PS1 into the other games, it made it more challenging, you really HAD to use graph paper while playing PS1!!

Incidentally, I have seen a vid somewhere where someone managed to hack Nei back into the party, and showed her on Dezoris.

Of course, since Nei tops out on levels early and her defense sucks, she's not much use there, so it is as well she dies off.

As to the grinding...yeah, there is some of that...but it can be done EARLY rather than late.

I'm doing my grinding on Uzo Island just before going to Climate Control. I pretty much have enough money for the rest of the game. I should be able to zip thru the rest of the game once I decide to wipe out Neifirst.

I forget her name right off but there was a character in PS4 I really really really liked. I related to this one well. If someone said her name, I'd remember it.

Gonna be playing PS4 next anyway, after which I will probably go back and do Super Hydlide again. That was a fun one, too.

[Warlock]

PS3 was kind of the black sheep of the series- I loved the idea of the 'multi-generational' plot, but unfortunately basically everything else about the game was lackluster. I think the theory on the PS board I frequented back in the day was actually that Sega had added some robots to an unrelated medieval RPG in development and rushed it out the door when PS2 was a success. I'd love to see a fan remake of the game with something closer to the PS4 look and battle system, though.

I remember killing those multiplying enemies in the tunnel to Climatrol for experience, but still... You need to do a lot of grinding to finish the game, and the later areas aren't that interesting for it. The samey dungeons were a huge turnoff to me, too- it felt like basically every area in the game was built out of one of two different sets of elements.

PS4 had, let's see... Alys the Hunter as the "experienced" character partnered with the main early on- she used slashers and died about 1/3 of the way through the game... There was Rika the Numan, who was basically Nei 2.0... There was Demi the robot who fought with guns, and Kyra the esper who used slashers and magic. I think that's everyone?

- HC

[Kalisiin Kumaki]

Oct 17, 2012 21:37:39 GMT -5 Warlock said:

PS3 was kind of the black sheep of the series- I loved the idea of the 'multi-generational' plot, but unfortunately basically everything else about the game was lackluster. I think the theory on the PS board I frequented back in the day was actually that Sega had added some robots to an unrelated medieval RPG in development and rushed it out the door when PS2 was a success. I'd love to see a fan remake of the game with something closer to the PS4 look and battle system, though.

I remember killing those multiplying enemies in the tunnel to Climatrol for experience, but still... You need to do a lot of grinding to finish the game, and the later areas aren't that interesting for it. The samey dungeons were a huge turnoff to me, too- it felt like basically every area in the game was built out of one of two different sets of elements.

PS4 had, let's see... Alys the Hunter as the "experienced" character partnered with the main early on- she used slashers and died about 1/3 of the way through the game... There was Rika the Numan, who was basically Nei 2.0... There was Demi the robot who fought with guns, and Kyra the esper who used slashers and magic. I think that's everyone?

- HC

Rika was the one I liked. You did not mention Grys. or was it Gryz?

[Warlock]

Gryz was a he, not a her, IIRC. didn't yo meet his wife at one point?

There were also Hahn the scientist, Rune the Mage, Wren the other robot, Raja the Dezorian, and Seth te monster-in-disguise. And Chaz the main character.

- HC

[Kalisiin Kumaki]

Oct 18, 2012 5:44:18 GMT -5 Warlock said:

Gryz was a he, not a her, IIRC. didn't yo meet his wife at one point?

There were also Hahn the scientist, Rune the Mage, Wren the other robot, Raja the Dezorian, and Seth te monster-in-disguise. And Chaz the main character.

- HC

I never sad Gryz was a he or a she. I honestly didn't know. I only played thru the game once so it doesn't stick in my memory much yet.

Incidentally, I had a random thought on PS2...you know how shir steals the Visiphone from the Tower? That's basically the same as save states. but what knocks me out is her stealing Star Mist and Moon Dew from the General Store. It seems to me it would be more realistic if she stole Star Mist from the Hospital and Moon Dew from the Clone Lady.

[Warlock]

Just saying- I thought you were asking specifically about female characters before, which is why I didn't mention Gryz.

- HC

[Kalisiin Kumaki]

Oct 18, 2012 10:40:10 GMT -5 Warlock said:

Just saying- I thought you were asking specifically about female characters before, which is why I didn't mention Gryz.

- HC

Ohhhhhhh....
(*insert Homer Simpson facepalm here*)

I thought you had named ALL the characters...and I remembered Gryz and thought you had forgot him. Of course, I even forgot Chaz, lol...but, again, I only played it thru once, lol.

[Kalisiin Kumaki]

OK, I am once again revisiting PS2.
But with a twist this time.

I am pumping up the characters HUMONGOUSLY.

See, I discovered a neat little trick, involving Save States and the Visiphone. Incidentally, I used a hack code to make the store in Paseo SELL the Visiphone right off, so I could have it from jump street, rather than waiting for Shir to steal it. I have hack codes now to make the store in Paseo sell just about any item I might want, including Star Mist and Moon Dew.

But I digress...
Back to my neat little trick...

See, I discovered that it is NOT SET...how much HP and TP the character will gain from each level...until after the battle is done. this means...you can Save State right before (or even in the middle) of a battle that will gain a character another level.
Win the battle, and see how much HP and TP they get. Save with the Visiphone.
Re-load the Save State and try again. Rinse and repeat until you have the highest possible totals for the HP and TP gains.

Sometimes, you DO have to compromise a bit...because it's rare to get both of them to max on the same battle, BUT...you use the Visiphone to SAVE...only when the current HP TP totals are more to your liking than what you previously had saved via the Visiphone.

Then you can re-load the Save State to try to improve it. Until you have decided you will get no better combo, and you move on.

I am right now done with the whole game except Noah...and am grinding up in Ikuto Castle on Dezo, just so I can grind all characters up to Level 50 to see what I can get these characters pumped up to.

I won't spoil it for you all until I have reached Level 50 on all characters, but, suffice to say one can get SIGNIFICANTLY STRONGER characters using this method...than just running thru the whole game taking whatever it will give you on a level-up.

For reference, I will post here...the stats I am accustomed to seeing for each character....and then, when I get THESE all ground up to 50...I'll post my results. Incidentally, I named many of my characters in this game after PS3 characters...My Agent is Rhys, my Hunter is Ayn, my Guardian is Sari, and my Doctor is Laya.

I never call the Biologist anything other than Gene...it just seems a really appropriate name for a Biologist, no?
This game, I was inspired by the color of the Wrecker's outfit, and named him Erik...after Erik The Red, of course!!

Anyweay, these are stats I am accustomed to seeing, at Level 50, for each character, give or take

Agent - HP 350 - 360 and TP 170-180
Hunter - HP 410 - 425 (of course the Hunter has no TP ever)
Wrecker - HP 300 - 310 and TP 150ish
Biologist - HP 300 - 310 and TP 160 - 170
Guardian - HP 290 - 305 and TP 95 - 100 (not that any of her techniques are actually worth jack shit)
Doctor - HP 275 - 290 and TP 180ish
Thief (Shir) HP 290 - 300 and TP 90 - 100

Those are the normal finish totals I have gotten in the past. This is the first time I am trying my pump-up technique...and, as I can tell you from early results...I am expecting SIGNIFICANT IMPROVEMENTS on those totals.

By the way, when I go after Mother Brain (and Dark Force, too, I might add) my usual group is Agent, Hunter, Wrecker, Doctor.

[Warlock]

Hmm- do all the stats work that way, or just HP & TP?

You might be signing yourself up for a ton of saving and reloading if you're trying to max out half-a-dozen stats with every level...

I remember being given the same advice for Destiny of an Emperor. Now there's a game I should play again sometime...

- HC