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Post by Warlock on Dec 27, 2012 12:34:07 GMT -5
A Christmas present for me, Squeenix? You shouldn't have!So the DS remake of FF4- featuring an entirely new engine and a number of new systems- hit the App Store late last week. I missed this one when it was first released on the DS a couple years ago; I'm looking forward to giving it a try. Vileo, have you played this one? I know you're a fan of the series and a DS owner... - HC
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Post by Vireo Gilvus on Dec 27, 2012 17:17:20 GMT -5
I greatly preferred the GBA/PSP version, because I'm a sucker for postgame content, optional dungeons, and ever-shifting parties with iconic characters. The DS version ditched all of that, in favor of voice acting. This wasn't that much of an improvement, IMO, because I liked to imagine how the FF4 characters sounded in my head. This version of FF4 was also full of artificial difficulty, in the form of one-time-only "augments", boss stat increases, silly minigames, and more infuriatingly rare item drops than ever before. The augments were a major issue for me because they required a lot of outside Internet research for the player to make the best possible placements. Frankly, I'm a little surprised that they ported this version to iOS and not the vastly superior FF4 Complete Collection for PSP. HCBailly recently finished filming a Let's Play of that version (original FF4, Interlude, and The After Years), and it was awesome. |
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Post by Warlock on Dec 27, 2012 22:14:29 GMT -5
That FF4 DS exists alongside Complete Collection puts the game in the somewhat interesting position of having two competing "definitive" versions with different things to offer. I would have been quite happy with either one, honestly- I'm curious about The After Years, even if it doesn't seem to have been very well-received. Feels kinda unnecessary- like Advent Children, an attempt to take a story that's already complete and tack another couple hours of swordfights and motorcycle chases onto the end.
(In this case, the motorcycle chases are metaphorical.)
I'd read a bit about the Decant abilities when the game was first in-the-works; I have to say that I was kinda wary of them at the time for the reason that they seemed to amount to easily-lost-forever abilities. I was hoping that they'd work out to be more like Materia or Magicite shards, but... I guess not. :/
- HC
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Post by Kalisiin Kumaki on Dec 28, 2012 0:16:40 GMT -5
Was this FF4 for the DS ONLY available thru the Nintendo Store...or could you get it on a cart?
I hate the DS Store. Always have.
Ever since they ONE TIME....updated my firmware which had the effect...WITHOUT MY PRIOR KNOWLEDGE OR CONSENT...of disabling my Acekard.
Fortunately, two weeks later there was a workaround and all was wonderful with the world again.
But from that moment, I vowed never again to go to the DS Store, or allow it to EVER update my firmware ever again...so that they would no longer get to block my Acekard.
Even though I DO have DS Lites which can NEVER be messed with, Acekards will always work with them, because they can't be remotely updated!
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Post by Vireo Gilvus on Dec 28, 2012 0:22:33 GMT -5
Was this FF4 for the DS ONLY available thru the Nintendo Store...or could you get it on a cart? Oh, it was available on cart, and easily found in stores. I think it might have been one of the all-time best-selling titles for the DS, because it was from an already-established series. But I wouldn't recommend it for you. If you thought the original FF4 was unfairly difficult, stay far away from this version. |
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Post by Warlock on Dec 28, 2012 7:19:22 GMT -5
The original version was released on cart around 2008-2009ish; I think it actually predates the DSi. AFAIK, Nintendo only started releasing full-size games on the online stores in last year or so. Honestly, I wouldn't recommend the game to you anyway- regardless of what else has changed, it retains the ATB, which was your primary objection to the original version.
As for your OT sour grapes: you mean to tell me that a firmware update has broken compatibility with an unliscenced third-party device whose primary purpose is to enable piracy? Good heavens, my monocle!
- HC
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Post by Kalisiin Kumaki on Dec 28, 2012 13:15:14 GMT -5
The original version was released on cart around 2008-2009ish; I think it actually predates the DSi. AFAIK, Nintendo only started releasing full-size games on the online stores in last year or so. Honestly, I wouldn't recommend the game to you anyway- regardless of what else has changed, it retains the ATB, which was your primary objection to the original version. As for your OT sour grapes: you mean to tell me that a firmware update has broken compatibility with an unliscenced third-party device whose primary purpose is to enable piracy? Good heavens, my monocle! - HC My point was that the firmware update DID NOT WARN IN ADVANCE THAT IT WOULD DO THAT. It had an eefect that was undesired, and unwanted. whatever it's primary purpose may be...NOT EVERYONE who uses them...uses them for the purposes of piracy, Some of us just happen to like the convenience of having all our games on ONE CART instead of hundreds of teeny carts. And, as with any other electronic media...you have a right to make a copy for your own use. What pisses me off is that Nintendo ASSUMES everyone is using it for illicit purposes. There is nothing on my Acekard that I did not purchase the original cart for - with the exception of any games I might be TRYING OUT...with the possible intent to buy. If I like it...I keep it on the card, and I buy it. If I do not like it, I save my fifty-eighty dollars and don't buy it...and don't keep it on my card, either. If Ninty wans me to cough up fifty or more bucks a game, then I damn well have a right to try it and decide if I am gonna like it before I buy it. And, until recently, the DS Store never sold full versions of games. and even then, there's a limit to how many you can have thru the DS Store on your system, at one time. Yeah, once you buy it, you can delete it and re-download it later at no charge...but with an Acekard, I have no real limit. If ninty doesn't like it, too damn bad. They have NO RIGHT...as far as I am concerned...to alter the functioning of a device AFTER I have purchased the device. If they had that right...then I do not really own the device, do I? If they wanted to maske future versions of the DS that blocked Acekards, fine. and they would find a workaround in a couple weeks, anyway. My point is they were sneaky and deceitful about it. I maintain my right to try before I buy...when they want THAT MUCH freaking money from me for one game! How would that be any different than me borrowing the game from a friend? Except, of course, living as I do in the sticks, I have no friends nearby who even have a DS...let alone the games I might like...it isn't as if I lived in a city with millions of people! As to FF4...I was asking for general info in case someone reading it might want it. the way the OP posted, it sounded as if this had only been available thru the DS Store. which kinda knocked me out as I wasn't aware something like that would even be OFFERED thru the DS Store...since they don't offer full versions of games - at least, I didn't think they did...since they didn't last time I ever logged on to the DS Store. Now I won't do it, because I don't want to risk a firmware update that I don't want. I'll go without the DS Store before I'll let them update my firmware. As long as my firmware isn't updated my Acekard will continue to work. Up yers, Ninty. |
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Post by Warlock on Dec 28, 2012 17:53:33 GMT -5
Are you suggesting, then, than Nintendo is responsible for testing that their firmware upgrades to ensure that every single third-party accessory still works afterwards? To preserve every exploit that could be used to install custom firmware or bypass authenticity checks on a game? That seems a pretty tall order, and one that would likely prevent the use of firmware updates to deliver bugfixes- which is one of the reasons they exist in the first place.
The fact that not every acekard on Earth is being used for piracy means very little, as certainly the vast majority are. To continue an earlier metaphor on a similar topic: say you ran a movie theater and found that there was a back door with a broken lock that people were using to sneak in and watch movies for free. Would you contend that the theater isn't justified in fixing the lock because two or three out of every hundred people who snuck in were just using the bathroom?
To be quite frank, t's a closed platform with live firmware updates that you're using in a way the platform's developers didn't intend. If you're using a third-party hack, the possibility that firmware updates will break compatibility with that hack (intentionally or otherwise) is one of the risks you take when you sign on.
- HC
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Post by Kalisiin Kumaki on Dec 28, 2012 21:00:16 GMT -5
Wich is why I REFUSE to allow it to make any additional updates.
They "updated" for the entire and sole purpose of blocking Acekards, no other reason.
And your theatre comparison is comparing apples to oranges and you know it.
If I BOUGHT the theatre, then I have every right to make use of the broken back door. I BOUGHT the DSi as is, and they have no right to make something not function on it just because they don't like it.
You're asking me to feel bad for a multi-billion dollar corporation. Somehow, I can't find it in me to give a shit if a company like that loses a few dollars to pirates.
And it likely does not affect the developers...who probably sold what they developed, outright, to Ninty, and already GOT what money they were going to get.
If that is not the case, I DO feel bad for the developers...but not enough to make me feel that Ninty's actions are justified. The DS Lite is not able to be remotely updated.
Just because I want more screen real-estate, I should accept them having the ability to alter the fuctioning of my device after I bought it?? I don't think so!! where does that end?
Next thing you know, Ninty will install some update that forces you to watch three advertisements before you can play a game! I would not put it past them.
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Post by Warlock on Dec 29, 2012 10:02:57 GMT -5
My point is that your argument seems to be that companies are wrong in taking any steps to protect themselves from piracy if it inconveniences you, and I think that's ridiculous. There are certain antipiracy measures that I think are totally outrageous- having a limited number of installations, requiring a constant internet connection- and I refuse to buy games that employ them, but occasionally releasing firmware updates that break support for third-party memory cards is not one of them.
Forgive me if I don't find "Nintendo is a big company so fuck them" to be a terribly compelling argument.
- HC
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Post by Warlock on Dec 29, 2012 11:38:29 GMT -5
First impressions of the game we are actually ostensibly talking about in this thread:
I actually like the voice acting and the snazzier presentations so far, but I'm not sure how I feel about the art/character models. I think they were right to stick with the SD look, but the anorexically-thin models makes them have a certain Power Rangers vibe... Dark Knight Cecil in particular looks like he's wearing spandex rather than armor. I can't help but feel that he should be bulkier if I'm going to buy him as an armored warrior.
- HC
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Post by Kalisiin Kumaki on Dec 29, 2012 11:56:55 GMT -5
My point is that your argument seems to be that companies are wrong in taking any steps to protect themselves from piracy if it inconveniences you, and I think that's ridiculous. There are certain antipiracy measures that I think are totally outrageous- having a limited number of installations, requiring a constant internet connection- and I refuse to buy games that employ them, but occasionally releasing firmware updates that break support for third-party memory cards is not one of them. Forgive me if I don't find "Nintendo is a big company so fuck them" to be a terribly compelling argument. - HC Well forgive me if I fail to find sympathy for a multi-billion dollar corporation losing a few bucks to pirates. As far as I am concerned, they have no business altering the function of my device...in a way I do not agree with. They should have been upfront and told everyone in their warning...EXACTLY what effects the firmware update would have and then let someone decide whether or not they want it. Of course, if you don't do the update, then you can't use the DS Store anymore. That's a choice you make. If NINTY would have done it right in the first place...and released full-version games on the DS Store...and ALL TITLES...instead of a dribble of one or two a week...and crappy ones at that... Then there would have been no need for me to employ an Acekard...or even buy the carts, I could have just bought the download versions instead...which I honestly would have preferred. I don't like carrying around teeny litttle carts that can get lost, stolen, etc. I keep ONE card in there at all times, and play all my games off that card. THIS is true portability. The other alternative, which would have been okay, but less than ideal...is include a carrying case with the game...that could carry the game, and about 20 carts, securely. They did neither. so I did what I needed to do for my own convenience. I took nothing which I did not pay for. Yeah, I tried out a few games before buying them, but I always bought them...or deleted the download file. Call me an "honest pirate." |
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Post by Kalisiin Kumaki on Dec 29, 2012 11:58:14 GMT -5
NOW....all that said...we have derailed this topic enough...let's get back to discussion about FF4 here.
If you wish to continue the Acekard discussion, let's open a new thread and we can hash it all out, and still not agree.
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Post by Warlock on Dec 30, 2012 13:11:40 GMT -5
Of course, if you don't do the update, then you can't use the DS Store anymore. That's a choice you make. Their store, their rules. Like I said, it's a risk you take on a closed platform. The "invent a standard, claim you pirate because the company doesn't live up to it" routine is one of the standard rationalizations "ethical pirates" use (The other being some variant on "I'm actually doing them a favor and giving them free publicity by downloading the game and then talking about it!"). It's one you have to be a little careful with, though- eventually it seems to boil down to "Unless a game is the best game I've played in my life and gives me 20 hours of entertainment and cleans my apartment and cooks me breakfast, it's a ripoff which is worth nothing." Yeah, I'd like to see more games available on the online stores (Sony actually seems to have done a better job with this in their "PS1 classics"), but frankly, you seem to be claiming that a minor inconvenience gives you the justification to steal whatever you want for free. When I bought my DS, I also picked up a case which holds my charger and a dozen games and probably cost less than your Acekard. - HC |
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Post by Kalisiin Kumaki on Dec 30, 2012 13:24:28 GMT -5
A - does the case hold the carts SECURELY??
B - I have already stated, and can back up...I stole NOTHING. Everything .nds on my Acekard is stuff I also own the legit carts for.
There IS some homebrew stuff on there, but it was all free-distribution stuff. For example, someone actually made a Bible app which was very nice for my mom, and I put it on HER Acekard.
I'm saying that, if Ninty would have done it right in the first place, with the DS Store...I likely never would have gotten the Acekard, as there wouldn't have been a need for it. I ALSO would not have bought the teeny little carts I never use. I would have opted to just buy the online downloadable games.
BUT...since they did not do it that way, I got the Acekard. But everything on the Acekard I also own the legit cart for...a cart which I never even use and it stays in it's original packaging.
The one exception is when I am considering buying a new game, and not sure I'll like it. Then I download it, and try it. If I like it, I buy it...and keep the file. If not, then I don't buy it, save the fifty some-odd bucks, and also delete the file.
I never would have bought Mario Kart, for example, if I hadn't tried it first. Similarly, The Dark Spire. I'd not have bought it without trying it first.
So...use quotes around "ethical pirate" all you want, the fact is I have not cheated anyone out of anything. But I also choose not to get cheated.
You remember the last time you bought a game for sixty bucks...found you didn't like it much, and tried to exchange it and got a big whopping nine bucks for your game? That doesn't happen to me. Because I try before I buy. But if I don't buy...I also don't keep the free file.
Again, we are majorly hijacking the original thread here. If you want to discuss it further, please make another thread, and let this one go back to FF4.
I get a feeling we will never agree or see eye-to-eye regarding the issue no matter how much we hash it out, but, in spite of that, I am still willing to discuss it further. Fortunately, I never asked for anyone's approval concerning what I do.
And I still feel no sympathy for a multi-billion dollar company losing a few bucks to the bad pirates out there. It isn't like it's bankrupting them or anything! Hell, we had this same argument way back in the 80's when people were recording music off the radio on cassette tapes! It's an old argument.
I still fail to see how this is any different, really. No different that recording music off the radio...or swapping games/tapes whatever with friends...borrowing each other's stuff...hell I remember the big issue when they came out with dual cassette decks where you could literally dub from one tape to the other, and people made copies of their commercially-bought tapes and shared with friends.
It's just something that is done, has always been done, and always will be done. I find the constant war between the pirates and Ninty to be a little amusing, actually...because no matter WHAT Ninty does...the bad pirates will still find a way to do what they do.
I just don't feel I should be inconvenienced by this battle, because, as I've said, I've taken nothing for which I did not pay.
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